Ferrari F40 VS Porsche 959?

[Newyorkkopter]

I wasn't calling the 959 rubbish or pointless. The 959 is really hot. I actually do like it.

Its just that I took it kinda personally when I read above that the 959 is the more sophisticated car; as if that makes it better than the F40. So that's why I was like so what if its more sophisticated, its not like the sophistication does much.

Now I still stand by what I said before(that the 959 has unnecessary technology for a supercar) but that doesn't mean I'm calling the 959 garbage, but rather that it would've been more extraordinary if it weren't so techy.

The 959 has 4WD, sequentials turbos, and what not, yet it still has specs simliar to that of the F40. So imagine if it didn't have all these technologies that are more or less there for everyday usability...

Also I brought up the Veyron and the SSC because they're opposites similar to how the F40 and 959 are opposites.

And for the taking the F40 on a long journey remark; since when did supercars become GT cars?

[Bleeding Heart]

Its just that I took it kinda personally when I read above that the 959 is the more sophisticated car; as if that makes it better than the F40. So that's why I was like so what if its more sophisticated, its not like the sophistication does much.

The 959 is more sophisticated...

Now I still stand by what I said before(that the 959 has unnecessary technology for a supercar) but that doesn't mean I'm calling the 959 garbage, but rather that it would've been more extraordinary if it weren't so techy.

I think all that sophistication is there for a reason...

And for the taking the F40 on a long journey remark; since when did supercars become GT cars?

Some supercars I think may be used everyday... I'm not very sure though...
-Lamborghini Gallardo
-Porsche 911
-Ferrari 430
-Audi R8

[LeonOfTheDead]

I wasn't calling the 959 rubbish or pointless. The 959 is really hot. I actually do like it.

Its just that I took it kinda personally when I read above that the 959 is the more sophisticated car; as if that makes it better than the F40. So that's why I was like so what if its more sophisticated, its not like the sophistication does much.

Now I still stand by what I said before(that the 959 has unnecessary technology for a supercar) but that doesn't mean I'm calling the 959 garbage, but rather that it would've been more extraordinary if it weren't so techy.

The 959 has 4WD, sequentials turbos, and what not, yet it still has specs simliar to that of the F40. So imagine if it didn't have all these technologies that are more or less there for everyday usability...

Also I brought up the Veyron and the SSC because they're opposites similar to how the F40 and 959 are opposites.

And for the taking the F40 on a long journey remark; since when did supercars become GT cars?

considering the 959 but without the 4wd system, the sequential turbo and so on is just like considering a completely different car. it's like saying the F40 should have comfy interiors, Bose sound system and and automatic gearbox. it wouldn't be the F40 anymore.
and, such a 959, without all the technological stuff, would result in a 962 dressed in a 911 suit, basically.
you just said it, all those "gizmos" are there just for everyday usability.
it's not that a car should be capable of doing everything, from hot laps during track days to taking you to the groceries store, but the 959 can, the F40 not.
that's the difference and that's why the 959 is more sophisticated, and even in a useful way.

I agree the Veyron VS SSC comparison is quite similar, but the Veyron is something a bit over the line even if compared to the 959.
the Veyron wants (probably) to be both a supercar and a comfy GT, the fact that is ended up being what it actually is is just because of the too long gestation and the mess the guys at VW did.

Some supercars I think may be used everyday... I'm not very sure though...
-Lamborghini Gallardo
-Porsche 911
-Ferrari 430
-Audi R8

I wouldn't consider any of these as a supercar, and just for a simple reason: if those are supercars, what about the other cars, from the 599 (just as an example) to the Zonda or the Veyron?

btw, it's true that a lot of supercars can be used and actually are used as an almost-daily drive, and that's a shame.
Why? it's again very simple. considering a lot of 550 Maranello owners were using their cars as their main drive, running more miles very year than what was happening with the former Testarossa/512 legacy, Ferrari was forced to make some heavy mods to their cars, making them for of all more reliable (arguable) and even more comfy.
it doesn't sound that bad, but creating a car which is more reliable means that you have to take an higher security index while designing it, and tht means that the car is going to be over dimensioned in every details, and so overall, and that the performance you are going to obtain from each details are inferiors to what possible with a lower index. Considering the comfy point, you already know that going to mean just one thing: weight.
so forget a new F40/F50

another point: why do you think Ferrari is considering a 4wd system for its cars? it's not for performance, they are fine with the E-diff and the likes. it's not for handling, since the cars already handle magnificently, and it's not for safety, since both Lamborghini and Ferrari can kill you no matter what.
but it's something people would like to have, even if they doesn't even know what that means.
it's like an R8 with a TDI engine, they will produce it just if the people will buy it.

the time of risking products is over a long time ago.

[Bleeding Heart]

I wouldn't consider any of these as a supercar, and just for a simple reason: if those are supercars, what about the other cars, from the 599 (just as an example) to the Zonda or the Veyron?

Can we use the term "hypercars" for the zonda nd the bugatti???

BTW... Isn't the 599 considered a GT car???

[LeonOfTheDead]

Can we use the term "hypercars" for the zonda nd the bugatti???

BTW... Isn't the 599 considered a GT car???

I wouldn't try to divide all cars in different categories, it's silly.
the 599 GTB has some typical aspects of what we usually call a GT car, but its performance level is actually pretty high.

for as regards me, I just like to think that each car (or brand) has its own attitude, even to the same idea, so we have pretty similar (technically) cars, like the Vaquish/S and the 550/575M, but with a completely different behavior, attitude, handling and so on.

[Ferrer]

I think all that sophistication is there for a reason...

It's there because the 959 was meant to be an homologation special.

another point: why do you think Ferrari is considering a 4wd system for its cars? it's not for performance, they are fine with the E-diff and the likes. it's not for handling, since the cars already handle magnificently, and it's not for safety, since both Lamborghini and Ferrari can kill you no matter what.
but it's something people would like to have, even if they doesn't even know what that means.
it's like an R8 with a TDI engine, they will produce it just if the people will buy it.

the time of risking products is over a long time ago.

Costumers are imbeciles and should be removed from any engineering decisions.

[wwgkd]

Costumers are imbeciles and should be removed from any engineering decisions.

It's funny, and yet so true.

[LeonOfTheDead]

just noticed how awful my english was, and the funny thing is that it's been three days since I only speak english. shame on me.

btw, I don't think we will see the 4wd Ferrari anytime soon. the cars are designed so that they could use it, but the system (should be Getrag) is still in early stage of designing/testing with poor results from the technical point of view, while the next 612 is already in an advanced stage.

[wwgkd]

just noticed how awful my english was, and the funny thing is that it's been three days since I only speak english. shame on me.

btw, I don't think we will see the 4wd Ferrari anytime soon. the cars are designed so that they could use it, but the system (should be Getrag) is still in early stage of designing/testing with poor results from the technical point of view, while the next 612 is already in an advanced stage.

That is good news. And no worries about the english, you speak it better than my grandmother, and she moved to the US (from germany) with what was left of her famiily right after WW2.

[henk4]

[QUOTE=LeonOfTheDead;858845

btw, I don't think we will see the 4wd Ferrari anytime soon. the cars are designed so that they could use it, but the system (should be Getrag) is still in early stage of designing/testing with poor results from the technical point of view, while the next 612 is already in an advanced stage.[/QUOTE]

at the time of the 959 Ferrari was also experimenting with 4WD, one car is (was) on display in their museum, which I did see....

[Bleeding Heart]

just noticed how awful my english was, and the funny thing is that it's been three days since I only speak english. shame on me.

Don't feel bad about it...
I'm not much on English either... And I'm even worse...

btw, I don't think we will see the 4wd Ferrari anytime soon. the cars are designed so that they could use it, but the system (should be Getrag) is still in early stage of designing/testing with poor results from the technical point of view, while the next 612 is already in an advanced stage.

Or, we wouldn't see them anytime at all in production...

AWD obviously makes a car heavier...

And weight is the last think that Ferrari might need... IMO

[Ferrer]

btw, I don't think we will see the 4wd Ferrari anytime soon. the cars are designed so that they could use it, but the system (should be Getrag) is still in early stage of designing/testing with poor results from the technical point of view, while the next 612 is already in an advanced stage.

Good news indeed.

Even Lambo is going two wheel drive again.

[LeonOfTheDead]

at the time of the 959 Ferrari was also experimenting with 4WD, one car is (was) on display in their museum, which I did see....

was that the 408 RM, right?

[Newyorkkopter]

Thats another good point that the 959 wouldn't be a 959 without all the techy stuff. But then again adding that everyday technology defeats the purpose of a supercar.

Driving a supercar is supposed to be a pure driving experience. Its supposed to be you and the car without electronics coming in the way.

Adding everyday technology takes away from that experience. And as a result, turns a supercar into a sports car.

You get into a supercar because you just want to drive, you don't care for a radio, heated seats, automatic gearbox, sequential turbos, etc. because all these things take away from what you want: a drive like no other

You want to hear that ridiculously big V12 or twin turbo V8 roaring behind you, you want that direct communication between your hands and the steering wheel, you want that rush from driving a supercar because you know it can't come through any other car.

What makes supercars unique is their driving experience. And if you take that away, its like a marriage without fights. You're left with nothing.

I'm not saying that supercar should be street legal race-cars, but rather that they should only have things necessary to drive on the road. Because if you add unnecessary technology then its not a supercar anymore.

How can you even think to go grocery shopping in a supercar? Its like taking a Public Bus to the drag strip. Its going against the purpose of why it was built.
For now its grocery shopping, but whats next? Supercars should be able to go off-roading as well?

There’s a limit to how ridiculous you can get. I mean yea you should be able to pick a few things in a supercar like a bottle of water, or a some food; but to go full-out grocery shopping? Come on now

The F40 is a good example of what a supercar should be. Its drivable on the road, yet its still a wonder to drive.

4wd Ferrari? Wow I guess supercars really are dead.

[Bleeding Heart]

Thats another good point that the 959 wouldn't be a 959 without all the techy stuff. But then again adding that everyday technology defeats the purpose of a supercar.

Driving a supercar is supposed to be a pure driving experience. Its supposed to be you and the car without electronics coming in the way.

Adding everyday technology takes away from that experience. And as a result, turns a supercar into a sports car.

Hey, isn't the 959 a sports car. I've done some researching lately and this is one of my results... So, the 959 has all that stuff because it's a sportscar, and not a supercar...
Porsche 959 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The F40 is a good example of what a supercar should be. Its drivable on the road, yet its still a wonder to drive.

4wd Ferrari? Wow I guess supercars really are dead.

I agree with you there...
If Ferrari were to make awd cars, that woulnd't end up well...
You don't need AWD in a supercar... As I said befor, that just adds weight...
Thus affecting the handling of the car...