The State of The Car

[Ferrer]

A more relevant US discussion would be why those 11 cars AREN'T available here.

probably for the same reasons because of which we cannot buy Dodge Durangos or GMC trucks in Europe?

Exactly.

I'm more concerned by lack of Mustangs and Challengers, though.

[henk4]

Exactly.

I'm more concerned by lack of Mustangs and Challengers, though.

We are now in Monterry using a Mustang GT...apart from the " thrill" you get when flooring it, it is not a car that would score high on my wish list for cars to import to Europe...after the " thrill" there is the constant thrubbing sound of the V8 which becomes rather irritating and then there is an absolute lack of any ride comfort. Maybe I am too old for a " sports-car".

and to answer Kitdy, the Mustang is only a marginal car in the big picture trend.

[Ferrer]

5 doors don't necessarily put an end to fun though.

[RacingManiac]

No, but getting a unnecessarily big car will...

[Kitdy]

What res RM?

[RacingManiac]

I used to live at St. Mike College of UofT on St. Joseph and Bay. Engineering at UT don't have their own dorm so we are using other UT colleges' dorm...Its a long ass walk in the winter to class to College and St. George where all engineering classes are...After my Co-Op year I moved home and commuted on my 4th year from Mississauga...

[RacingManiac]

Also, by sitting higher up(more up right) it gives you a feel of more airy/roominess.....Which is why MPV style car, even though their foot print maybe no more than the compact that they are based on, they feel more spacious....

[Magnum9987]

I'm still waiting for some bright mother****er to actually build an Atkinson-Diesel. The technology is here. VVT, VarioGeometry Turbos, and refinements to the Atkinson engine have made hybrids (I shudder to say this) a success, at least in part.

I am however a firm believer in that hybrids are merely a trend. Rather than either develop the IC engine further (such as the Atkinson-Diesel i have mentioned) or the Electric Vehicle, companies are settling on a less than optimal compromise. The prius yields only slightly better than average highway milage (I'm talking for the USA here, I know for a fact European diesels such as the Polo Blue Motion eclipse its milage by 100%, literally). The new LEAF yields only a 120 mile range. Good for cities yes, but I know for a fact that Americans will not be content with being chained to a power outlet. For what they are, EVs of today are for overpriced. The technology of the EV can be stretched with the majesty of carbon fiber and perhaps solar power, but even then they will still be high priced and will still have a very limited range.

I applaud Fiats Twin Air Twin Cylinder Engine. Nothing in my eyes is more ideal using todays technology.

I want to see the revetec continue its development, and am praying to see it in a production car within 15 years. And maybe if the stars align just right, it will be in air cooled Atkinson-Diesel trim

[Ferrer]

I applaud Fiats Twin Air Twin Cylinder Engine. Nothing in my eyes is more ideal using todays technology.

Test have actually shown that it's very sensible to throttle usage, and not all that frugal. The smaller TSi also got mixed results. Suprisingly (or not) one of the cars that got better results was the conventional Auris 1.6 Valvematic.

[Ferrer]

All German cars have better "driving" features. All non-German cars have better "non-driving" features.

Discuss.

[RacingManiac]

GTR > All German.... /discussion....

lol

I guess there are some merit to it. Looking at the Americanized Jetta, even the bare bone model(I think its available for $14.9k USD, the 2.0 4 banger). It still has ABS, ESP, and TCS, even when it has no AC, or radio. I think a lot of Japanese econoboxes still has those as options, aside from maybe ABS. The presence of those being good or bad is debatable amongst enthusiasts, but definitely has value for average drivers.

[Ferrer]

I was thinking more in terms of hardware v gadgets and the general feel of the car. Lately I've been driving the Lancia Delta a lot, over 400km this week, and will continue to do so for the rest of the week. Being "reunited" with it I've "relearnt" that is a very nice car to go places in. The radio is excellent, the glass roof and opening sunroof, the seats, the suspension everything is geared towards making your journey easy and comfortable. However the steering is silly, the brakes stupid, it rolls badly, visibility is bad and it's been far too supersized to be driven in anything other than an easy open road.

Pretty much all of the german cars I've driven have been the exact opposite. Even the hateful Audis seem to have been designed to sustain high speeds and demanding driving conditions, if you gloss over the their understeer and the dead steering on some of them, but the brakes, steering, suspension and everything else certainly are geared towards it. Not to mention Mercs and nevermind BMWs. And yet they are less joyful and pleasing to go places with them. Gadgets and equipment seem to be worse and the ones that may be worthy cost a fortune.

[RacingManiac]

I think it has to do with also maybe their national standard for certification? Not knowing if there are any testing standard difference from TUV vs something like NHTSA, I am assuming since cars from Germany are rated to go on Autobahn, which means operating safety at the terminal speed of the car, which means it needs to have good high speed stability, good braking stability, ability to handle road disturbance at speed, and just a general confidence building demeanor at speed, that it trickles down and generally lead them to be better suited for enthusiasts vailue?

[henk4]

I think it has to do with also maybe their national standard for certification? Not knowing if there are any testing standard difference from TUV vs something like NHTSA, I am assuming since cars from Germany are rated to go on Autobahn, which means operating safety at the terminal speed of the car, which means it needs to have good high speed stability, good braking stability, ability to handle road disturbance at speed, and just a general confidence building demeanor at speed, that it trickles down and generally lead them to be better suited for enthusiasts vailue?

I think these "abilities" in german cars are vastly overrated. What you mention there is pretty much what every European car (German/French/Italian) can produce and probably most Japanese car as well.

[RacingManiac]

We have 2 Peugeot 407 at work here(yes in US), we were developing some suspension system for those car as Peugeot was a customer interested in the system. When we finished the demo car and brought it back to Europe for demonstration to multiple EU OEMs(mostly Germans), they are all puzzled why we picked such a below average car for demo car. So even though we demonstrated vastly improved dynamics, they are not impressed as the stock car is rubbish....

I don't know if that is a common theme with French cars, but I guess the German think so....I am not the driver so I have no idea if the actual feel behind the wheel...

Personally, my only yard stick is what I've driven. Some decent Japanese cars(Infiniti G and Ms,), some appliance(Camry), and my current car, the GTI. The Infiniti is good. They are stable, good handling, but slightly incoherent near limit. Toyota is rubbish all together. GTI is predictable and stable at speed. But granted, GTI is probably the only car I've pushed really hard on.