Ferrari F40 VS Porsche 959?

[LeonOfTheDead]

But that doesn't detract the fact that the market for stripped out cars is still there. And probably someone who would consider one wouldn't consider a "luxury" sportscar and viceversa.

point is, the F40 cost, I don't know, ten times more than the Ultima trying to equalize the prices.

[Newyorkkopter]

The reason why I'm so strongly arguing this point is because there is a clear difference between sports cars and supercars.

Sports cars are your performance cars that come nice, comfy, and cozy. They're drivable everyday, be it to work or to your local grocery store.

Supercars are your performance cars that come ridiculous, insane, and jaw-dropping. They're drivable only when you want to do one thing; drive.

Now, you're right that supercars should have a/c and should be comfortable enough to drive without a backache. Yes, by all means they should. After all they are road cars.

But to put things like 4wd, heated seats, automatic wipers, active steering, etc. that's all a waste. These things do nothing for a supercar but take away from its being a supercar.

Are you really going to drive your $500,000 supercar in snow, hail or even pouring rain?

Obviously not.

For groceries we have sedans, minivans, etc.
For off-roading we have SUVs, trucks, etc.
For the ultimate drive we have(or had in this case seems more appropriate).... supercars

Driving a supercar is supposed to be a drive you can't get it in any other car; mainly because other cars are filled with computers constantly butting in for various reasons (some of which may be necessary for every-day cars, but not for supercars)

The drive of a supercar is what makes a supercar, a supercar. Its a drive like no other.
And why is it a drive like no other? Because of the absence of unnecessary technology.

Technology like heated seats, active steering, 4wd is good for everyday cars; but not for supercars. For supercars thats all just unnecessary weight.

Regarding your example about the Carrera GT at Nurburgring.
Option A wouldn't be a supercar, that would be a racing car. A supercar is supposed to be drivable on the road.
Option B sounds more like a GT car than a supercar
So I would have to go with something inbetween A and B. Something like the F40.

And yea the S7 is quite under-rated. One can tell just from the fact that it makes over twice the downforce of an Enzo without active aerodynamics. And its even more aerodynamic

[Bleeding Heart]

The reason why I'm so strongly arguing this point is because there is a clear difference between sports cars and supercars.

Sports cars are your performance cars that come nice, comfy, and cozy. They're drivable everyday, be it to work or to your local grocery store.

Supercars are your performance cars that come ridiculous, insane, and jaw-dropping. They're drivable only when you want to do one thing; drive.

Now, you're right that supercars should have a/c and should be comfortable enough to drive without a backache. Yes, by all means they should. After all they are road cars.

But to put things like 4wd, heated seats, automatic wipers, active steering, etc. that's all a waste. These things do nothing for a supercar but take away from its being a supercar.

Are you really going to drive your $500,000 supercar in snow, hail or even pouring rain?

obviously not.

But then, the presence of the Bugatti Veyron or the Lamborghini Murcielago proves that a supercar can be drivable in a daily basis considering you have a lot of money for fuel...

Driving a supercar is supposed to be a drive you can't get it in any other car; mainly because other cars are filled with computers constantly butting in for various reasons (some of which may be necessary for every-day cars, but not for supercars)

The drive of a supercar is what makes a supercar, a supercar. Its a drive like no other.
And why is it a drive like no other? Because of the absence of unnecessary technology.

Technology like heated seats, active steering, 4wd is good for everyday cars; but not for supercars. For supercars thats all just unnecessary weight.

Regarding your example about the Carrera GT at Nurburgring.
Option A wouldn't be a supercar, that would be a racing car. A supercar is supposed to be drivable on the road.
Option B sounds more like a GT car than a supercar
So I would have to go with something inbetween A and B. Something like the F40.

And yea the S7 is quite under-rated. One can tell just from the fact that it makes over twice the downforce of an Enzo without active aerodynamics. And its even more aerodynamic

That's just it... As long as it drives like no other, you can call it a supercar... Because, even if all that technology is there, you would just ignore them because your primary job is to drive...

[Ferrer]

But then, the presence of the Bugatti Veyron or the Lamborghini Murcielago proves that a supercar can be drivable in a daily basis considering you have a lot of money for fuel...

I doubt a Murci is a good idea for a daily driver...

[clutch-monkey]

Now, you're right that supercars should have a/c and should be comfortable enough to drive without a backache. Yes, by all means they should. After all they are road cars.

But to put things like 4wd, heated seats, automatic wipers, active steering, etc. that's all a waste. These things do nothing for a supercar but take away from its being a supercar.

that's true, probably why i can never take mercedes seriously.

[Cyco]

I doubt a Murci is a good idea for a daily driver...

So long as you don't have a whole pile of narrow laneways in you commute I don't see why it couldn't be.

Its a very easy car to drive. Even the 'boot' is far bigger than expected.

[Newyorkkopter]

That's just it... As long as it drives like no other, you can call it a supercar......

Yea that's true.

Because, even if all that technology is there, you would just ignore them because your primary job is to drive...

No, you wouldn't be able to ignore all that technology because that all technology would be relentlessly intervening and chipping away at your drive while you're driving.

So therefore because of all that technology it wouldn't drive like no other; and if it doesn't drive like no other, then its not a supercar.

That's why supercars can't have all that unnecessary technology. Because it ruins what you want to do; drive.

Other cars can and should have all that technology because they help in what you want to do; go grocery shopping, go to work, go cruising, go sight-seeing, etc.

The Veyron and Murcielago aren't supercars. They're just really fast GT cars

[charlie_b]

I will have ferrari f40 any day

[Bleeding Heart]

No, you wouldn't be able to ignore all that technology because that all technology would be relentlessly intervening and chipping away at your drive while you're driving.

So therefore because of all that technology it wouldn't drive like no other; and if it doesn't drive like no other, then its not a supercar.

That's why supercars can't have all that unnecessary technology. Because it ruins what you want to do; drive.

Other cars can and should have all that technology because they help in what you want to do; go grocery shopping, go to work, go cruising, go sight-seeing, etc.

I'm telling you, you CAN ignore them...

If you don't like using Traction Control, Turn it off... If you don't like AC, roll down the windows... Having problem with the sat nav, turn it off...

That's it... you can ignore all this sophistication...

because when you're driving cars like these, you wouldn't care about all of them technologies...

The Veyron and Murcielago aren't supercars. They're just really fast GT cars

Okay, you can call the veyron and the lambo GT-ish because of the sophistication they have but they're still true supercars due to their extreme performance...

Just try to drive a bugatti or a lambo and try to compare tht driving experience to driving a normal GT car, let's say a Mitsubishi Eclipse...

After that, I doubt you would call the bugatti or that lambo a GT car...

I will have ferrari f40 any day

Me too...

[Cyco]

Just try to drive a bugatti or a lambo and try to compare tht driving experience to driving a normal GT car, let's say a Mitsubishi Eclipse...

After that, I doubt you would call the bugatti or that lambo a GT car...

An Eclipse is a GT car?

Grand Tourers have to be Grand.

A Murci is a GT car, havn't driven a Veryon, but I suspect its the same.

[Newyorkkopter]

You do have a point there. Some technology can be ignored by turning it off, but how do you turn off power steering, permanent 4wd, paddle shifters, etc.?

You can't.

So therefore you can't get that drive like no other.
And as a result what you're sitting in isn't a supercar, but rather just a fast sports car.

Extreme performance doesn't make a car a supercar.
A 10 second Honda Civic has extreme performance but its still not a supercar.
Its still a Civic; yes its really really fast but its still a Civic.

In the same way the Veyron and Murcielago are really really fast, but they're still GTs

[Bleeding Heart]

An Eclipse is a GT car?

Grand Tourers have to be Grand.

Sorry about that... Forget about the Eclipse there I typed...

Let's replace it with a BMW 3 series as a basis of comparison...

You do have a point there. Some technology can be ignored by turning it off, but how do you turn off power steering, permanent 4wd, paddle shifters, etc.?

You can't.

So therefore you can't get that drive like no other.
And as a result what you're sitting in isn't a supercar, but rather just a fast sports car.

Extreme performance doesn't make a car a supercar.
A 10 second Honda Civic has extreme performance but its still not a supercar.
Its still a Civic; yes its really really fast but its still a Civic.

In the same way the Veyron and Murcielago are really really fast, but they're still GTs

I think when you're driving, you wouldn't feel that AWD...

BTW, just to remind you. most AWD cars deliver a majority of the power produced to the REAR wheels... from 60% to 80% of engine power is delivered to the rear wheels... So, in some cases, it will still feel like a RWD

Power-steering is already a part of the modern automobile, so it doesn't make any significant changes to the level of sophistication of a car...

Paddle shifts??? Most cars have options if you want a stupid paddle shift or a proper stick shift manual transmission...

I forgot something about the part of extreme performance... It's the performance while the car is still stock... Untuned in other words..

I still cant' get the point why the Murcie can be classified as a GT... Yeah, I know the Veyron can be classified as a GT but I don't think the Murcie is... That car was made to battle against other supercars like the Carrera GT, and the Pgani Zonda, etc...

C'mon... Just compare the Murcielago to any other GT car like a BMW or a Maserati... It seems that there's a wide gap between them...

[Pando]

I think when you're driving, you wouldn't feel that AWD...

BTW, just to remind you. most AWD cars deliver a majority of the power produced to the REAR wheels... from 60% to 80% of engine power is delivered to the rear wheels... So, in some cases, it will still feel like a RWD

Power-steering is already a part of the modern automobile, so it doesn't make any significant changes to the level of sophistication of a car...

I forgot something about the part of extreme performance... It's the performance while the car is still stock... Untuned in other words..

Speaking of which...

have you ever...

actually driven...

a single car...

in your entire life...?

[Bleeding Heart]

Speaking of which...

have you ever...

actually driven...

a single car...

in your entire life...?

Considering I'm just 16 years old...

Which still DOESN'T have a license for me to drive public roads...

I have actually driven our Family car which is a Toyota Corolla...

I've also driven a 4x4...

[Pando]

Considering I'm just 16 years old...

Which still DOESN'T have a license for me to drive public roads...

I have actually driven our Family car which is a Toyota Corolla...

I've also driven a 4x4...

Ok...

I'm sorry then...

That makes you perfectly qualified...

to compare...

among other things...

the handling...

between a F40...

and a 959...

etc...

I guess...

I was...

mistaken...